Read this post in Romanian.

Let’s go back to the beginning. When did you start working with the charity?

I started working for the working for the charity, I think 12 or 13 years ago. I’m not too sure, because all the years they roll into one and I’ve known Music as Therapy for a good 20 years now, through my work in Romania.

And what were you doing at the time before then? How did working with us come about?

I found out about Music as Therapy’s international work when I was volunteering with another UK-based charity in Romania, working in residential centres for adults with disabilities and mental health illness, so both charities were working in similar places. That is when I met Alexia. 

Then when I moved over to the UK, I kept volunteering on different projects in Romania and kept hearing about Alexia and about Music as Therapy’s work. By chance there was a point when they needed a translator, and from translating a few texts, it moved on to learning to moderate the Distance Learning Programme and working very closely with (Advisory Panel member) Cathy Rowland. Then it moved to coordinating the program, taking part in conferences in Romania. So yes, the role developed from there, really.

As you said, we weren’t the only organisation active in Romania at the time, so was there anything about the charity that stood out to make you think you’d like to get involved?

Yes. I suppose at my professional core, even though I moved over to the UK, my main interest was to continue to develop training programs for practitioners working in Romania and developing the local expertise and Romanian skills in working with children and adults with disabilities. 

And I was really attracted by the Distance Learning Programme because it was a very well-structured program that gave access to any kind of practitioners from Romania to develop their music skills and therapeutic work with their clients. What really attracted me to it was the fact that it was accessible to everyone. And at the end of the course, the practitioners were left with a very sound set of skills that they could apply in their setting.

I’m just absolutely fascinated in making things work for everyone and in supporting any person to achieve their fullest potential, no matter what.

Is there anything else about the Distance Learning Programme that you feel gives it value?

First, the supervision that Music as Therapy offers is absolutely crucial. And I think it gives a very clear framework that can support any practitioner working with children or adults with developmental needs in terms of really understanding who you’re working with… assessing the child, defining clear aims for working together, with a clear set of activities and skills… the fact that the students have a two-day practical workshop in which they practice their music skills and the fundamental concept of unconditional positive regard. It’s a really clear progression through the principles of music as therapy and all the practical considerations of music as therapy.

Music obviously forms the core approach of the Distance Learning Programme – and all of our activities. What do you feel makes music so effective?

I think for me, working through music is really important because a lot of the times verbal communication can be really difficult for some people. But working through music and sound can be a more accessible form of communication and of connecting. Whether it’s sound made with a voice, or through your movement, or sound made with musical instruments, it’s a really easy way of expressing yourself and connecting with someone else.

During your time working on the Distance Learning Programme, the course has taken a number of turns in attempts to strengthen its foothold in Romania. What would you say were the biggest challenges you or the course have faced?

I think one of the challenges has been for music therapy – as it is known and applied in the UK – to be established in Romania, especially in their university courses. Romania does have a music therapy Masters, but it’s very different from what music therapy is in the UK. And even though we’ve worked collaboratively with them and we’ve tried to implement some of the Distance Learning Programme within their course, it hasn’t been possible.

But at the same time, even though the academic world in Romania has remained very rigid, I think all the connections that Music as Therapy has made over the years has really laid the ground for future work. And what we’re seeing now in Romania is young Romanian practitioners, some of whom have started with our Distance Learning Programme and who have gone on to become music therapists either in the UK or in Holland or in Germany. And these people are returning back to Romania. So, what we’re seeing now, after 20 years, is there are Romanian music therapists who are taking on the challenge of having the profession recognised in Romania and developing their own good quality courses and training.

Do you feel that’s an important aspect of future development – that they are Romanian music therapists, rather than from the UK or elsewhere?

I think for a long time it was really meaningful that the course, especially the Intensive Study Training, was run by British music therapists, because of the credibility of the training and the expertise and how things were run. 

But I think Monica Manases (formerly Szabo) has played an absolutely crucial role over the past 20 years in developing local courses and developing a really strong network of practitioners. She’s also managed to get accreditation for the course with the Romanian College of Psychologists, so the course is accredited. And based on the long relationship that Music as Therapy has had with Romania and Romanian practitioners, Monika’s work and her relationship and ability to create networks of practitioners, we have arrived at a point in which we can hand it over to the Romanian music therapists and say, “we’re still involved,” but it is time for a fully Romanian team to take over.

It definitely feels like a landmark moment for the Distance Learning Programme in Romania. What do you see the future holding for the course?

I think we have identified some Romanian music therapists that are ideal to take it forward, so it will be really interesting to see where we will be at in about two or three years. It is very possible that they will be able to link with one of the universities in Romania and become a module of one of their Masters courses.

But it feels like it’s the right time to have a fully Romanian based team. Even though I am Romanian, I’m not based in Romania, whereas Eli (Eleanora Rosca) is based there and she’s a UK trained music therapist, Monika is based in Romania and Larisa may also be based in Romania at one point once she finishes her studies.

It was right for us to also recognise that actually, now it is the time to encourage the young practitioners and the young therapists to make a stand and to take it into their hands, and we’ll make sure that we make this process run smoothly and that they feel confident in it. 

On a personal level, then, it must be quite fulfilling to see it get to this point and to be able start stepping away in the knowledge it’s in safe hands?

Oh, absolutely. I think it’s absolutely great and that it can be a fully Romanian team and it’s a young team and everyone is really enthusiastic and dedicated. It was really interesting when we did the interviews with Larissa (Neculai) and Eli, I said to Alexia afterwards, they have all the dreams that I’ve had years ago! This is all I wanted too! So it’s really nice to see that the passion and the determination is there. I have great faith in the “new” generation.

You’ve worked with us for a long time now. What made you stick with us for so long?

The core of the work. For me, Music Therapy International stands out through the fact that it develops local skills and local practitioners where maybe the access to music therapy is really limited, or the access to working through music is really limited. 

And through the training courses, it really develops the practitioners’ skills and enables them to develop their own further programs in music as therapy so they can introduce music as a form of expression and communication in places where the access to music therapy might not be as easy.

I think developing the skills of everyday practitioners, like early years practitioners, or carers in care homes, to develop their music skills is really fundamental because these are people who work day in, day out with their clients. 

Will you will miss it?

I will definitely miss it, but it’s really exciting to see it being passed on to such a strong team and I think it was the right time to pass it on and let it grow in a new way.

You must have seen some changes over the years?

I think the charity has really maintained their core values and principles, and it’s always been very exciting to see how, in time, it has extended its activities to a lot of countries… not being afraid to go into areas or countries that have been through a lot of conflict and now need support to recover and start growing. But also, I’m really impressed with the way the charity has worked in the UK to develop expertise here because it’s not only other countries that need support. 

Is there anything in particular you think you’ll take away from your time working with Music as Therapy International?

This is a difficult one because it’s like I’m taking everything, like really taking away everything! 

For me personally, it has always been working with the principles of Music as Therapy – the child-centered approach and the attitude of unconditional positive regard. I’ve also learned a lot from all the supervision that was received on the course, looking at one problematic situations from different angles.

Another thing I’m definitely going to take with me is the dedication and determination with one specific cause. Because you realise you won’t be able to put all the wrongs right in the world, but if you really stick to what you know and what you’re doing well, change is going to happen and it’s going to spread and multiply.

I definitely agree. There’s a lot to be said for just retaining that focus and not getting distracted and try to be “all things to all people”.

Yes, absolutely. And I think what is also really strong is over the years the charity has built up a very important collection of resources for practitioners through videos, case studies, articles. I think all the resources that the charity has built have been crucial to a lot of practitioners around the world. You can really take inspiration from it and use things as a resource material, which is a really important legacy. All the stuff that Music as Therapy has produced through the years has been really clear, sound and with a really solid base of evidence.

So, what’s next for you, once you’ve handed over the reins? 

Well alongside my work with Music as Therapy, I work in a primary school with children with either developmental delays or ASC, or emotional and behavioural difficulties. I also support artists with complex support needs for Project Art Works. We run artist workshops where people come into the space and they do their arts practice and are supported by artists like myself.

I will be continuing with this work, and I’m looking into offering more specialised support for young people and parents or carers of children with disabilities or particularly ASE. 

After more than a decade there’s undoubtedly a lot to reflect on, and you’re not stepping aside just yet, but how would you sum up your experience in a couple of sentences?

Well, I’m very grateful to have grown as a practitioner alongside Music as Therapy International and I really felt throughout the years being involved with the charity has helped me grow and develop as a practitioner. 

It’s been a real privilege working with music therapists over the years and it’s always been such a lovely supporting team that it’s like, what am I going to do without it? But I know I can always get in touch!